🎙️ This free edition of MKT1 newsletter covers Season 1, Episode 9 of “Dear Marketers with Emily Kramer & Friends” podcast, brought to you by Typeform, Framer & 42 Agency.
Listen or watch the podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. Plus read the full newsletter below for an even deeper dive on the topic. The newsletter is meant to augment the podcast, not just recap it.
Today’s question:
“Dear marketers, What's the biggest mistake that you see first time marketing leaders make? I'm not talking about basic stuff like bad one on one formats and messy decks. I mean, mistakes that actually derail their credibility. From what I've seen, it's usually one of two things: They either stay way too close to the work because it's too comfortable, been there, or they zoom out too fast and lose the team in the process. I want to know what you see the most.”
– Mark Huber, VP of marketing at UserEvidence
Dear Mark and Marketers, managing marketers, even as an experienced leader, feels chaotic right now. So for new managers, it can truly feel like you’re herding cats in a hurricane (can you tell I spent many of my childhood years living in hurricane country aka Florida?).
With GTM budget cuts over the past few years, anxiety about AI taking jobs (and in some cases, AI actually replacing headcount), content feeling like a whole new game, and old tactics showing diminishing returns, managing people sometimes feels like the last thing you have time to focus on.
Not to mention it’s always been a hard job. There are so many distinct specialties, so many sub-functions, and no single archetype for what a “marketer” looks like. On top of that, marketing is often misunderstood by other teams. All of this makes managing marketers uniquely challenging.
I know this to be true because I’ve been there, and so have my cohosts. I built marketing teams from scratch 4 times. 2 of those times my role as solo marketer evolved into a large marketing function. I’ve since advised marketers at all stages and all team sizes. And I can tell you that every marketer I work with, no matter how senior, could use more support when it comes to managing people.
This newsletter is here to help. And as Mark requested in his question, we hope to not give generic marketing management advice (but I’ll let you be the judge of that).
In this newsletter & podcast episode:
Jenny Thai (Head of Content at Vanta), Grace Erickson (VP of Revenue at Cocoon), and I discuss:
Thanks to our Dear Marketers sponsors:
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Watch Episode 9 here, or keep reading for the full newsletter!
You can also listen to the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
The 4 common mistakes we see first-time (and even experienced) marketing leaders make
Mistake 1: Choosing RAM (Random Acts of Marketing) over impact
“I often ask people when I’m advising them what are the highest-impact things you’re working on right now? And even experienced team leaders can’t answer the question…I don’t think it’s ’cause they’re bad team leaders. I think it’s because nobody ever asked them that before.” – Kramer, Episode 9
Quick advice:
If you don’t model good behavior prioritizing the right things as a leader, your team won’t either. Spend time steering them in the right direction, meaning towards the high-impact work.
“You need to model what good prioritization looks like, otherwise your team’s not gonna do it either.” – Jenny Thai, Episode 9
The problem:
Everyone on a marketing team, no matter their level, has a tendency to get bogged down in random acts of marketing. Requests come from everyone in the company, trends and tactics change all the time, and it’s hard to resist the urge to do all of these things.
But when you’re a manager, if you are doing check-the-box marketing and going whatever way the wind blows you, your team will follow suit. So if this was a challenge for you to get right as an IC, it’s going to balloon as a manager.
The solution:
There are 3 ways we’ve found to solve for this head-on. Most of this advice are things that show up across MKT1 newsletter and Dear Marketers podcast, but they become even more important when you have people following your lead.
Ask why vs. say yes to everything: To do this, you need a framework or rubric for when to say yes. And that framework is typically your (documented) strategy for your team (whether a sub-function or entire marketing team) and your goals. If you don’t set and check in on your goals regularly and make sure they align with a higher-level strategy, neither will your team.
Recognize that project management becomes a bigger part of your job, even if this seems a bit counterintuitive. We usually think managing people means you get to focus on “strategy” and “people management,” but you also need to make sure even more work gets prioritized and gets done. Understand this up front, and put in place processes and systems to help.
Focus on the big, high-impact things. I kind of gave away this tip in the title of this section. But it’s very important that you know not only the high-impact things you are focusing on, but also what every individual's highest impact or highest priority work is at the time, and also what the highest impact things across everyone who reports to you are.
Framework to help: Set K.P.O. not KPI goals
Even if there's chaos around you and the rest of your team isn't following a process for goal setting, the only way to make sure that you focus on the high impact stuff is to know what the high impact stuff is.
And maybe you're not gonna run a whole disparate KR process from the rest of the marketing team or the rest of the company. But at the very least, you should know what the high impact work everyone that reports to you is working on. - Kramer, Episode 9
Many managers, teams, and even entire companies make the mistake of setting only performance metrics. They pick a few KPIs, tie them to a (questionably sound) forecast, and call it planning. Or they spend forever on a bloated OKR process that doesn’t match how individual teams actually operate—so those goals are set and then never seen again!
To avoid RAM (random acts of marketing), it’s more effective to set goals that fall into 3 buckets: K for KPIs, P for (big) projects, and O for ops and foundational work.
KPIs: Needed to show momentum and to track the impact of your core work, or the things you are continuing on from past quarters (or whatever planning horizon you’re working with).
Projects: If you don’t set goals for the high-impact work, it will likely slip as you get bogged down in the day-to-day. And perhaps even worse, other teams won’t know the big things you are working on.
Ops: Most of the time, new big bet projects require some behind-the-scenes work to make them possible. Whether that’s hiring someone full-time or part-time, adding in a new tool, or doing research, there are usually dependencies. To account for this, I like to set ops goals. Because again without these, the work slips, and then so do your big projects.
For more on KPO goals: I’ve written a whole lot about this, especially in last fall’s annual planning series.
“Teams of any size, in any org structure, need structure to know what to do when, how to prioritize, whose job it is to do what. Teams need structure. And so as a manager, it’s your job to create the right structure for your team.” – Grace Erickson, Episode 9
Mistake 2: Failing to delegate
“Delegation is the number one problem for new managers. Actually, it always is—even for experienced managers.” – Kramer, Episode 9
Quick advice:
If you can’t delegate well, you won’t be an effective marketing manager. It’s that straightforward.
The problem:
Most new managers hold on too long. Either out of habit, perfectionism, or fear of things going wrong. But if you can’t delegate effectively, you can’t scale. If you personally can’t scale, your team can’t grow and scale either.
“It’s hard for managers to delegate work because sometimes it just feels easier to do the work yourself… But it’s very bad in the long term because you’ll just stay stuck in the weeds. And your direct reports can miss out on a learning opportunity. If they're not getting the chance to try something new they haven't done before, then they'll just never learn. So you just get caught in this bad cycle.” – Jenny Thai, Episode 9
The solution:
I feel this problem deeply, as I’m the first to admit I’m not a great delegator. I’m a builder and a doer; I like being in the weeds (this is why MKT1 is a great fit for me). So it was a real effort for me to let things go—even the small things. Here’s my best advice, combined with Jenny and Grace’s sound advice (I think they are better at this than me!):
Your goal is to obsolete yourself (from doing the day-to-day work): To quote expert operator Molly Graham, you need to “give away your Legos” to make room for management.
Delegation doesn’t mean disappearing. It means being intentional about what you stay close to. It helped me to identify one or two “pet” projects to own, then ruthlessly delegate or cut everything else. Just make sure those pet projects are high-impact projects.
A clear review process with defined “tiers” for who reviews what is incredibly helpful. As a team lead, I focused my review time on high-impact work or “one-way door” decisions (those that are hard to reverse). For everything else, reviews from the sub-function lead or even a peer on the team were usually sufficient.
GACCS briefs (Goals, Audience, Creative, Channels, Stakeholders) are very helpful for aligning on expectations early. That same review process should likely include the reviewer approving the GACCS brief at the beginning of the project, and reviewing the work at the end.
“Don't be afraid to delegate the big stuff too. If there’s a person on your team that's ready to take on more, delegate that big project. That's a great way for you to coach up a team member and to get them the experience that they are maybe excited to develop.” – Jenny Thai, Episode 9
Framework to help: Pie chart of responsibilities
Is making a list of what you do all day a framework? Maybe. But either way, it’s what I tell my advisees to do when their list of responsibilities gets too long:
Think of a circle as your time (don’t worry, this isn’t physics). When you become a manager, the circle doesn’t get bigger—you’re not supposed to work significantly more.
What fills the circle has to change. But many new managers forget this. You try to do it all, you can’t do it all!
List out everything you spend time on. It doesn’t actually need to be a perfect pie chart or a deep AI analysis of your calendar, just a rough list. You’ll quickly spot things that aren’t the best use of your time.
Still not obvious? Show the list to your manager, a peer, or mentor (as I often have my advisees do). They’ll point out what needs to go. Then, let it go.
“In the process of doing this, even if you don't share it with anyone, you are going to discover things that you're embarrassed about*. And if you're embarrassed about things that are on your list (if you have the resources) hire a contractor, delegate the work to someone on your team, or delegate to AI. And maybe you're not gonna delegate it all overnight, but at least having awareness, ‘I shouldn't be doing this anymore’ is really valuable.” – Kramer, Episode 9
*Note: By embarrassed I’m not saying execution is an embarrassing job, I’m simply saying as a manager you have to give that stuff up to make more time for the other things in your circle!
Mistake 3: Poor mentoring and coaching
"You’re not just a manager. You’re a coach and mentor, too." – Grace Erickson, Episode 9
Quick advice:
You don’t need to be the expert in everything. Coaching isn’t about having all the answers. It’s about asking the right questions, helping your reports build confidence, and supporting their career growth.
The problem:
“People are promoted to management because they’re good at their job, and they’re high performers, and they want to take on more responsibility. And then they’re like, ‘Wait, I don't want to manage people,’ or ‘Wait, I don't know how to do this.’” – Jenny Thai, Episode 9
New managers often over-prioritize execution and under-prioritize team development. When you shift from IC to manager, you’re no longer judged on the work you produce yourself, you’re judged on the output and growth of your team.
But too often, new managers default to just assigning tasks and managing deadlines, without investing the time to coach their team through challenges or mentor them.
Making this worse is the fact that most startups don’t really train managers on this part. So while taking on bigger tasks and projects comes somewhat naturally, managing people often doesn’t. People don’t expect the amount of emotional labor that can be involved in managing others.
Relatedly, there’s the imposter syndrome situation. Specifically, worrying that you don’t have enough experience to coach others. This happens a lot at startups when early employees become managers, and they aren’t necessarily as experienced in the specific function as the people they hire.
“You can be friends with the people that report to you… but that doesn’t make you a good manager. Growth is hard and uncomfortable when it’s happening to you.” – Grace Erickson, Episode 9
The solution:
Start by creating space and intentional time for coaching, regular 1:1s, project debriefs, async feedback, and explicit conversations about career growth.
In addition to those regular 1:1s, schedule specific time for career check-ins, don’t assume this will happen in 1:1s automatically. I like to automatically put check-ins at 30 days and 90 days for new hires, and then once or twice a quarter for everyone else.
These checkins are for discussing how they are really doing, what your report wants to spend more or less time on, talking about career trajectory, and getting a real pulse check—it can also help you avoid surprise departures from the company.
A couple other suggestions:
Find peer managers to trade notes with. This can just be other new managers or team leads at your company, they don’t need to be marketing managers!
Acknowledge the emotional labor of management. It’s hard. If you feel frustrated about something in your org, and then 5 people come to talk you about the same thing, it can snowball.
“I want to highlight the importance of frequent performance management. What did someone call it to me recently? Not performance management, but performance maintenance to make it less scary feeling. People need to know where they stand and understand how they're doing against your expectations.” – Grace Erickson, Episode 9
Framework to help: Traffic lights
While this framework is nicely nested under Mistake #3, mentoring and coaching, it actually applies to all of the mistakes. In everything you do, consider and adjust how you spend time on the red, yellow, and greens.
“People tend to spend all their energy trying to fix the reds… but usually that’s not the best place to spend your time.” – Kramer, Episode 9
Trying to fix everything (or everyone) is a fast track to burnout (been there). But also trying to fix the wrong things is a fast track to tanking performance.
I like to use a traffic light color coding system for projects, goals, channels, content series…all the marketing work. You might do this too. But what you probably don’t do is think about where your energy is actually going and where you’ll get the most ROI.
Here’s how you should spend your time to maximize impact:
The reds are the least likely to succeed, so why do we try to save them? Don’t ignore these completely, but if you know something is truly a red, it’s very unlikely it will ever become a green.
The yellows are the things we should try to save. They are floundering between red and green, so put more time there to make sure they make their way to the green category!
The greens are successes and where you should spend a lot of your time. This may seem counterintuitive (you’re thinking: “The greens are doing well. They are carrying this team and our performance.”) Now imagine if you gave those greens more attention, you doubled down, you scaled them, you spotted the patterns and applied that to other things, etc. This is the way!
“One of your jobs as a manager is to retain talent. So I think with your top performers… it’s very easy to be like, they got it, they’re good… and then six months later they’re like, oh by the way, I got this awesome opportunity.” – Jenny Thai, Episode 9
Now apply this to people (even if that seems a bit harsh):
You likely have a breakdown in your mind (and maybe an “on paper” version from a review cycle) of how your team is performing. You know who the red (low performers), yellows (meeting or almost meeting expectations), and greens (exceeding expectations) are.
And just like with the marketing work, I encourage you not to spend time on the team members who just aren’t a fit at your company at this time (the reds!).
The mistake most new managers make is over-focusing on reds, hoping they’ll change. You should absolutely do performance management, but don’t let it dominate your calendar.
Your best ROI is turning yellows into greens—and helping your greens fly.
Mistake 4: Neglecting internal marketing
“The hardest part of marketing isn’t doing the marketing work. It’s educating the rest of the company on marketing.” – Me on another podcast (blasphemy!)
This episode and newsletter are focused on managing your direct reports—not managing across and up to other teams and leaders in your company. That said, we’d be remiss if we didn’t call out internal marketing as one of the biggest mistakes marketing leaders make.
Quick advice:
Internal marketing becomes a bigger part of your job the more senior you get. Don’t assume people understand what marketing does or why it matters, educate them (repeatedly, clearly, and respectfully).
“You are also the filter for your team and their projects… it’s your job to also filter that out to the company in a way that makes sense.” – Grace Erickson, Episode 9
The problem:
There are two big challenges here:
Explaining what marketing does (and can do) to the rest of the company
Managing inbound requests from other teams, and pushing back with tact
Too often, new marketing managers assume their work speaks for itself. They underestimate the knowledge gap between marketing and the rest of the org. And while everyone thinks they’re a marketer, most people don’t actually understand marketing deeply, especially when you start tossing around acronyms.
You also can’t assume other teams know what you’re working on or why. Explaining your priorities, goals, and high-impact projects won’t eliminate all the fire drills and random requests, but it will help reduce them.
The solution:
“It’s all about providing context and explaining why we’re doing these things and not these other things.” – Jenny Thai, Episode 9
Recognize that internal marketing is a massive parts of your job as a marketing leader. Don’t wait for people to ask, proactively market what marketing is doing across the org and explain the why.
Learn the frameworks and metaphors that explain marketing clearly. I promise I made all these frameworks for a reason: I use them when talking to people about marketing, they work! Try “balancing fuel and engine,” or “marketing teams are more like product teams than sales teams”. I cover the frameworks that work best for internal marketing here.
Start by aligning your team around clear KPOs (as I talked about earlier) and then share those goals and priorities broadly on a regular cadence.
Build a clear request process so cross-functional teams can ask for support without trapping your team in the “random acts of marketing” cycle.
Adapt your communication to the right altitude. Executives, sales, and your marketing team all need different levels of context and framing.
“I see people struggle a lot with communicating at the right altitude… Just like you adapt marketing for your audience, you need to do the same thing internally.” – Emily Kramer
Framework to help: How to speak the same language as other teams
You need to understand what other teams care about, understand what they do and don’t understand about marketing, and learn to speak their language.
Here’s a cheat sheet, but every company is different so adapt this for your organization.
Additional resources on internal marketing:
MKT1 Newsletter (one of our most popular): How to market marketing internally
Dear Marketers - Episode 1 & Newsletter - Managing marketing requests
In summary…
Here’s a lightning round (newsletter-style, there’s also an out loud lightning round in the pod):
What do we wish we knew as first-time marketing leaders?
Not knowing everything is part of the job. (Jenny)
Emotional labor is a real part of management and being liked isn’t the same as being respected or effective. (Grace)
You don’t have to hire someone better than you at everything—you need to develop them into that. (Emily)
What’s our (self-selected) best marketing advice?
Make a manager buddy at your company or outside of it. Find someone at your level and trade notes. (Jenny)
Don’t wait for structure—create it. Even if it’s basic. Even if no one else is doing it. (Grace)
Know what your high-impact projects are and make sure your team knows too. (Emily)
Set expectations early, and keep reinforcing them. (All)
Grace: “Create structure in every direction. Take the chaos and turn it into a structure that works.”
Emily: I think that's a hot take Grace. A lot of people say, ‘Don't put in place too much structure.’ But it's not structure for the sake of structure. It's structure for the sake of being able to delegate, being able to prioritize, being able to focus on the high impact things, knowing what people need to review with you as their manager, knowing what they can just run and do. It's structure for the sake of working on the right things and doing them well.”
Want more on this? Listen to Episode 9 of Dear Marketers for more stories and advice about where marketing managers go wrong, and how to get it right.
Why be a manager at all?
After I finished my draft of this newsletter, I received this feedback from a reviewer: “One observation is you mostly talk about how hard it is to be a manager. Could be good to nod to at least the good parts / why you would want do it in the first place…”
Real talk: people management isn’t for everyone. And yes, you can find some IC roles that are pretty senior. But if you want to continue to gain responsibility in a marketing role, management is typically the primary path.
For me, the most rewarding part of being a manager is watching those people excel in their careers. My podcast co-hosts were in fact previous reports—and I love that for us.
And since I also have my co-hosts in Slack, I asked them for help identifying more good parts of management:
For more riveting discussion between me and my co-hosts, check out the full podcast episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
Templates & resources for managing marketers:
Available in our template library for paid subscribers only »
Marketing requests form example - Typeform
KPO Goal setting template - Sheets
GACC(S) brief - Doc
Org chart template - Figma
Areas of responsibility - Sheets
Operating Cadence & Goal Tracking Templates - Airtable
Annual plan & goals template - Docs
More from MKT1 & Dear Marketers
🙏 Thanks again to our sponsors: Typeform, Framer & 42 Agency
⭐ Please rate us or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
📚 Additional reading on managing:
MKT1 Newsletter (one of our most popular): How to market marketing internally
Dear Marketers - Episode 1 & Newsletter - Managing marketing requests
⁉️ Want to ask a question in a future episode? We have a Typeform for that.
🧑🚀 Job board: Jobs from the MKT1 community. Want to post on the job board? It’s free for paid subscribers!
🎙️ Next podcast: Dear Marketers Episode 10 on IRL events
📰 Next “deep dive” newsletter: Results from our Typeform marketing tool survey, as a follow-up to our most recent newsletter on marketing hackathons.
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